Old PM Clip raises guitar playing question

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Cypress Knee	Old PM Clip raises guitar playing question	Lead	[-]
Posts: 17 (02/20/08 18:37:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Found this early rendition of Proud Mary while watching the CDTR video: http://www.stage6.com/Captain-Video/video/1223278/CCR-~-Proud-Mary I have no idea when it was recorded, or for what show. But I have to believe it was early on in their career. And noticed that JCF is playing the song in standard tuning with the D as his primary chord shape. Yet in later years he plays Proud Mary on the black Les Paul tuned down a whole step and using the E chords as his primary fingering. So that leaves me wondering when he started "de-tuning" the guitar...was after this video? Tom is playing a Rickenbacker, I am wondering if he is playing JCF's Ric, and where did JCF's Guild come from? He wasn't particularly known for playing Guilds. Just some questions for the historians tonight. CK
bayoubred		#1	[-]
Posts: 5 (02/20/08 21:23:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Last Edited By: bayoubred 02/20/08 21:37:04. Edited 1 times.
Makkari		#2	[-]
Posts: 104 (02/21/08 02:27:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I have no idea when it was recorded, or for what show. But I have to believe it was early on in their career. That's from the Ed Sullivan show, 1969. And noticed that JCF is playing the song in standard tuning with the D as his primary chord shape. Yet in later years he plays Proud Mary on the black Les Paul tuned down a whole step and using the E chords as his primary fingering. So that leaves me wondering when he started "de-tuning" the guitar...was after this video? Tom is playing a Rickenbacker, I am wondering if he is playing JCF's Ric, and where did JCF's Guild come from? He wasn't particularly known for playing Guilds. Interesting. Im pretty sure JCF used D-tuning on the single/Bayou country version of Proud Mary (which is the audio of this video). Maybe they didn't really care what they played since no one heard it anyway?! I think I haven't seen that guitar in any other video, I actually thought it was a Les Paul, but when I look closer it's indeed a Guild. Maybe they thought that those guitars would look cool in the show... Last Edited By: Makkari 02/21/08 02:30:43. Edited 2 times.
dejavueKC		#3	[-]
Posts: 6 (02/21/08 06:42:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I found that on a number of JF tunes, one of the guitars is in D tuning. This includes Proud Mary, Lodi, Suzie Q, Back Door. It may depend more on if its performed live or studio versions, as he might choose to play the easier chords live, while singing.
Thorpsky		#4	[-]
Posts: 145 (02/21/08 12:46:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	In the "old" days bands didn't play live on TV. The vocals were sung to a backing track. Perhaps John is playing in standard tuning because he has to sing to the recorded track, which definitely has the D tuned guitar. The Guild may have followed the "Acme" Rick, which I believe was given to a young fan. TF is playing a George Harrison model with cool "cat-eye"holes. T
dejavueKC		#5	[-]
Posts: 7 (02/21/08 14:46:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thorpsky, I am trying to understand your comment. How do you know the recorded track used a D-tuned guitar? I am not debating it, I just am curious how you know. To me, he could play the song in E with D tuning, or play it in D with normal tuning regardless of how the backing track was done. It will look correct either way on the screen. I play it both ways to get a slightly different sound between rythm and lead guitars, but as you say on TV back then, the playing was just show anyway.
essendonfc		#6	[-]
Posts: 6 (02/21/08 15:49:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi I'm glad someone raised this query. The clip was from Ed Sullivan. But my real issue is the chords used. I am used to standard tuning CA CA CA G,F etc for the intro then D, A, Bm for the song, but watching the recent clips I see John playing other chords. Can someone tell me what those other chords are in the different tunings thanks john
dejavueKC		#7	[-]
Posts: 8 (02/21/08 17:02:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yes, that is easy. He is using D tuning. You tune each string down two steps D G C F A D. Then just raise the chord sequence by the same two steps. DB DB DB then E G Am for verse. This is something JF/CCR did a lot to give the deeper creedence tones as I indicated above. But I think they only do it on one of the guitars. This is one of the reasons he changes guitars so often. Its not just for showing them off. Its also something you can do in general when the songs are just too high too sing without a kick to the gonads.
Thorpsky		#8	[-]
Posts: 146 (02/22/08 00:15:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"I just am curious how you know." I can tell by listening to the recording, but it's fairly common knowledge that PM was the first of many CCR songs recorded with the dropped Spanish tuning. The song is in D, and the music track is a mix without the vocals. John's fingering is the same as TF's, which is not the fingering used if the guitar was tuned to D. That was the original question posted by CK. T Last Edited By: Thorpsky 02/22/08 00:19:18. Edited 1 times.
CBH49		#9	[-]
Posts: 1 (02/22/08 00:34:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm almost sure, that John used a D-tuned Gibson ES-175 when he recorded PM. The ES-175 was stolen from his car, so the Guild/Ed Sullivan Show could have been recorded before John bought the 1968 Les Paul Custom. I think John mentioned in a interview, that the first song he recorded using the Les Paul was BMR. Last Edited By: CBH49 02/22/08 00:44:17. Edited 1 times.
Makkari		#10	[-]
Posts: 106 (02/22/08 04:28:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is a really good thread. lots of information here. I'm almost sure, that John used a D-tuned Gibson ES-175 when he recorded PM. The ES-175 was stolen from his car, so the Guild/Ed Sullivan Show could have been recorded before John bought the 1968 Les Paul Custom. I think John mentioned in a interview, that the first song he recorded using the Les Paul was BMR. I always thought JCF used a Rickenbackers and a a Les Pauls throughout the Creedence days. Seems like it wasn't so simple. So I have a few questions... Did John use other guitars than his Ric on the first album? I also think I hear a Rickenbacker on most of Bayou Country, but from Green River on I guess JCF played mostly Les Pauls. Am I right here? So he could have bought the 1968 Les Paul Custom that you mention between Bayou Country and Green River... Was it always the Les Paul that JCF tuned down or the Ric as well? What was the thing with the 3/4 scale Ric? Can someone give a complete list of CCR songs played with the D-tuning? PM, Bootleg, BMR, Fortunate Son.. Any others? Did John use Telecasters in the Creedence days?
CBH49		#11	[-]
Posts: 2 (02/22/08 04:43:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	That's what I had in mind, that he bought the Les Paul right after Bayou Country. John didn't play a Tele in CCR. At least I've never heard it, but I think I've seen some pics from when he recorded BRR where John played a white Tele. ES-175 and Les Paul tuned down to D and Ric 325 standard tuned in CCR. I'm not sure if John started playing two Les Pauls on Cosmo's Factory, one with Bigsby standard tuned instead of the Ric and the D tuned one. I think he played two different Les Pauls when CCR performed as a trio. I just found this interesting link. There's a lot of info there: http://www.backonstage.halmstad.net/tk/fogertys_guitar_lesson.htm Last Edited By: CBH49 02/22/08 05:03:51. Edited 2 times.
dejavueKC		#12	[-]
Posts: 10 (02/22/08 07:21:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Excellent find! That explains some problems I have with playing Bayou.
Thorpsky		#13	[-]
Posts: 147 (02/22/08 08:40:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	"...so the Guild/Ed Sullivan Show could have been recorded before John bought the 1968 Les Paul Custom." The Guild factory was in Hoboken, NJ during this time frame. Maybe he dropped in for some shopping. The model John's playing is a LP style solid body. T
Cypress Knee		#14	[-]
Posts: 19 (02/22/08 09:27:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I posted the link on the Guild board, and here is one response: "Looks like a 1968 or 1969 M75 early hollowbody Bluesbird with sunburst finish ... I had originally though it was a 1970's model but this video shows the small humbuckers and surface bridge of a '68 or '69 M75 Bluesbird." I think this was about the time the ES 175 was stolen. Since that was a semi-hollow bodied jazz typed guitar, and the Les Paul is a solid body, I wonder if this was an interim experiment to get a semi-hollow body sound with a guitar that looks like an LP but had some tonal characteristics from a hollow body. (That Guild was carved out on the inside, but no "f" holes.) Obviously JCF found his preference in the Les Paul lines, though Tom played a Guild Starfire 6 in later CCR recordings. CK
Thorpsky		#15	[-]
Posts: 148 (02/22/08 10:10:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tom also played Epiphones. T
Makkari		#16	[-]
Posts: 108 (02/23/08 01:18:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks, CBH49! Great link! I hadn't discovered the "spooky chord". I've always played BOTB just E7, D, A... I also hadn't come to think of the alternate fingering of the D chord (well, actually it's a C) in PM. It must be easier to play that way.
Rusty Ford		#17	[-]
Posts: 324 (02/23/08 11:21:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Somebody mentioned above that maybe from Green River on, John used just Les Pauls. I think he still used his Rickenbacker too. On Willie and the Poorboys, I don't think it's a Les Paul on 'It Came Out of the Sky', and I'm almost sure the opening riff to 'Fortunate Son' is not a Les Paul. Same thing with 'Cotton Fields', 'Effigy', etc. They all sound like his Rickenbacker. I could be wrong, but they sure don't sound like a Les Paul. I think Fogerty used the Rick on that album, and in concert during 1969 and 1970, he was using the Rick on standard tuning songs and the Les Paul on dropped tuning. I think by the time they recorded Cosmos Factory, he had stopped using the Rick, and by this time had gotten another Les Paul, and was using one Les Paul for standard stuff and one Les Paul for dropped tuning.
monkbobo		#18	[-]
Posts: 102 (02/23/08 16:38:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	on Someday NC, maybe
dejavueKC		#19	[-]
Posts: 11 (02/23/08 17:05:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here is very nice little piece on what he is doing now, equipment wise. JF needs a wide arsenal to cover his history of sound. http://www.geocities.com/guitarpluschordplusampequalstone/JohnFogertyRig.html
Makkari		#20	[-]
Posts: 135 (03/03/08 12:59:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	http://www.backonstage.halmstad.net/tk/fogertys_guitar_lesson.htm There are some things I really didin't understand. JCF said: That big open G chord - what I've heard called 'Clarence White chord' - has a little move in it that I really like I lift the D and G notes on the 1st and 2nd strings to the open E and B notes to add a melody in the top part. " What does he mean with "that big open" G chord" or the "Clarence White Chord" (btw, I'm a huge CW fan...)? The standard open G chord, which would be an F chord on a D-tuned guitar?? Or the open "A" chord (with fingers on the B,G and D strings at the second fret) which is a G chord on a D-tuned guitar?? There are no "D and G notes on the 1st and 2nd strings" in either of these cases! So what does he mean? Can someone explain this to me? I also didn't quite understand what he said about Bad Moon Rising.

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Old PM Clip raises guitar playing question

Old PM Clip raises guitar playing question

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